Transcript

Ryan: How can you come up with innovative ideas if you’re not including people

Didi: Pops. It’s the People Ops podcast from Zenefits, the only show dedicated to small businesses, sharing stories of the pivotal people moments. I’m your host, Didi D’Errico. In this episode, Ryan Patel joins me to talk about a quote of his that was featured on the NASDAQ billboard in Times Square in 2020. What was the quote?

Ryan: Build people. If we can make an impact at an individual level, we can certainly make an impact on a global level. 

Didi: Ryan is no stranger to the big stage and bright lights. As a global business executive, he’s a frequent guest on CNN, the Davos World Economic Forum and in the boardrooms of big businesses like HP, MasterCard and Lego. When he’s not contributing to quarter-acre size billboards, he shares his expertise at the Drucker School of Management at Claremont Graduate University as a board and faculty member teaching on entrepreneurialism. So how did Ryan make his way to the big stage? Interestingly, it all started with knowing how to scale. 

Ryan: If you had to put me in a box, which I don’t like people putting me in a box, it’s in scaling. I did it for three publicly traded companies. I did it for a company that was actually a mom-and-pop that got a lot bigger, and more recently did it for a startup and help take it global with an exit. Now I get to sit on different boards, speak at large conferences from being a part of the HP Innovation Summit to Davos a couple of months ago, around sustainable value chain and now be able to be in the media and touch on these subjects. What is the global supply chain impact on small businesses? Being a voice, a wider awareness about how to scale properly, how to build entrepreneurial spirit, which I teach at the Claremont Graduate University across all sectors, because I’m a big believer of everything’s interconnected. I like to take my big corporate experience and now the startup experience and kind of combine them, because when you do scale things, it’s not easy. There’s not a cookie cutter response. I think it takes a lot of, I like to use my governance skills and obviously push people in a way to build it the way that they want to and appropriately. Just because it worked in the past, doesn’t mean it’s going to work in the future. We know this with digital innovation, that you need to be nimble.

Didi: As someone who really knows about scaling a business, what is it that keeps pulling Ryan back to the world of startups and 

Ryan: small business?

It’s the passion. You always look at how things start first. Being a part of, a long time ago, the Panda restaurant or Panda Express, it was a husband-wife who just started a Panda Express store. Now it’s still privately, but you can guess multi-billion possibly at this point, and you think about how it started and how you became, when you really think about why it started, what was the passion? And it became the people. Even when I worked for a startup, the Pinkberry, and help you can feel how everyone cared about the mission. Everybody was not just care about the job description, but they wanted to make an impact in the community. It’s just a different feel and I think with that also comes the ability to solve a problem.

Sometimes, not to say that large companies can’t do it, but you’re driven to solve a problem and to be the best at it and you get measured day in and day out behind it. I think that takes true team collaboration, but there can’t be just one person. 

Didi: As we break down Ryan’s approach to business and leadership, you’ll hear how it’s about more than scaling a business. It’s about building your people. Now, here’s the conversation with Ryan beginning with how to get your mindset right.

Let’s talk about getting your mind right in terms of business and the impact of building people for your business. I want to start with conventional thinking. Conventional thinking about HR and entrepreneurs. Where has this fallen short? We talked in a prior conversation, Ryan, about Silicon Valley needs to change to keep up, and often people think of it the other way around. Everybody wants to catch up to what Silicon Valley is doing. What does Silicon Valley get wrong, or what does it need to change when it comes to people operations topics, and some of the top discussions going on in your MBA programs right now? 

Ryan: Silicon Valley has to change to stay at the top with a lot of different tech hubs coming around the world. Why is that the case? Because it’s clear, it’s not just about money and just investing money. The business has to be sound. We’ve seen with the unicorns and how people focused on, well, you got to be profitable. Well, to be profitable, meaning that you actually have to build an infrastructure, it’s not about how high your valuation is anymore, because people have gotten smarter. People have wanted to invest in things that they care about and they’re mission driven. So in the past in Silicon Valley, right, you can say that a lot of businesses was grow as fast as you can no matter at what costs. Just do it and sell and then leave.

I’m not saying that model is leaving, but that model will be less popular in the future when you have a lot more competition and people having a long-term view when it comes to the environment, social governance, social impact, all of these things have a long-term view, not a short term view. So I feel that the onus has become now back to Silicon Valley into all leaders. How are you building your people? Because it’s not an excuse anymore to say, well, I was just an engineer and now I’m the CEO. I didn’t know I have to build a whole team or a brand. Like, that’s not an excuse. If you don’t know how to do it, you better go hire someone to do it. Or you better go have a board to tell you that.

And I think we’re seeing that trend. We’re seeing a lot more small businesses, in my eyes, are looking for external voices, looking for ways to get better. I’m not saying that wasn’t before, but they know that to stay in longevity, you’ve got to stay with fresh ideas and perspectives. How do you help your people?

How do you help the business? Because they go hand in hand. They’re not separate. 

Didi: A really great context in terms of how do we all stay viable? And it’s not an excuse. I think that that’s important to think. I’ve come up in Silicon Valley marketing, too. I’ve recalled, there’s lots of those Silicon Valley-isms, like move fast and break things, right. And you can’t afford to move fast and break your people if you’re paying attention to really the longer view. 

Ryan: Well, part of that, too, is inclusion. How can you include better people or just all people, so you’ve equal opportunity to get a better perspective on innovation? How can you come up with innovative ideas if you’re not including people?

I mean, I think that’s where, there’s a difference of what tokenism is and to be actually included, to be inclusive. I think startups and small businesses have an opportunity to be more nimble, to do that right, to begin that innovation, to include that from the beginning and create that people first mindset it’s much harder.

It’s not saying it can’t be done when you’re scale and larger to do genuine impact that way, where if you can still that while you’re scaling and growing it’s priceless. But the dollar amount is obviously there and very highly valuable in the future and help your growth versus stunting your growth when you’re not inclusive.

It’s 

Didi: not just the product, it’s the people, because that inclusivity with people is going to make the difference in the product. It’s a full circle view there.

So let’s talk about how your “Build people” quote relates to small businesses, and what you’re teaching the next generation of entrepreneurs to think about and embrace and put in the front of their business thinking. 

Ryan: The social contract or whatever you want to call quotation is changing. And so, you know, people focus on, well, I have to invest in the people, but what does that mean? What does build people mean? When I said it, one of the layers that I was thinking of is build people professionally and personally. It’s a personal growth thing too. Like, are you helping your employees get to where they want professionally? Meaning is it a job? Is it, you know, different skill sets within the job? But don’t ignore what the personal development growth looks like, too, which is kind of scary at times because people go, well, wait a minute, am I supposed to groom them to leave my job? Many people have different aspirations and we’ve seen this. We’ve seen that some people have missions in community work. Some people have missions, they want to get their business skills better. They want to have better at Excel. They want to learn how to do drawings or CAD drawings artistic.

Can you somehow help that personal growth while they’re still working for you? That, to me, is a great equation to try to help solve, help people add value. And, I talked about Vault, community service, for example. Let’s just be clear. We were seeing this more and more when you interview, when candidates are coming in, even those that are coming out of university, people are asking questions. The candidates are asking, so what are you doing for the community? They’re negotiating on volunteer hours. That’s not because they’re not, because they want to recognize that passion, have a touch base on what that looks like. Be kind of involved in the community affairs for that employee. It will go twofold. When I talking about building people, it’s, you’re building a culture of people like that who care. You’re building them as an individual, you’re building people as a team, too, because if you’re treating everybody as equally, and with their mission behind it, so how do you create people to feel more safe, to be able to speak up, to be able to want to bring their best day in day out, no matter how they’re feeling. Because let’s be honest, you’ve got to be indirectly inspirational and motivate people to want to come in no matter what kind of day they have, and if they do have a bad day, how can you support it? Right. These are all questions that also include health and wellness, mental health, these all either tools or resources that I’m hoping that are either in conversation right now for many or your businesses that are out there.

For 

Didi: sure, a lot of the conversations we’re having in these podcast interviews are backing up and looking much more holistically at the human beings that come to work, and everything from the emotional levers to the political levers, to the environmental levers, all the different things that impact how we’re surviving and how we’re thriving. What I think is interesting, and I’d love to ask you, so part of your role as you’re a thought leader, but you mentioned that you are all about learning, too. I’m curious, the example you used is, it sounds a little bit led by the current generation. I’m curious how much of your graduate students are leading this discussion in the classroom versus what you’re prompting there, too, and how that’s reforming how even the business programs think holistically.

Ryan: 125 – whatever percent I could put a checkmark to that, I’d checkmark. So like you and I talked about, you know, I was fortunate, Ideas did a feature on me about the way of sustainable business, right? We did an interview with them or did an interview with them where the viewpoint of how ESG that needs to be metrics for the future.

There needs to be ways that shows, in Europe, and there’s data behind it, supporting that those companies that focus on that have a better return on average than those that not. So I always thought about this. I’ve always believed in to that core consumer, right? My consumer background allows you to say, you’ve got to do what the consumer wants.

You got to be genuine about that. My students, the master’s students in public health, from all, from public health to stat, all backgrounds, they take it to another level. I mean, I understand it and I see it, but also when you have direct relations to the consumer in an unfiltered way, about who they would work for – they don’t buy this type of chocolate because it’s not clean. Or I don’t buy the type of chocolate because they’re not transparent. Or I don’t buy this kind of beauty product, or I don’t provide the service or a software because they don’t do X, Y, and Z, or it’s not stated. So it’s not always a bad thing that a company is doing, or it’s not communicated very clearly. That just means that’s when you think that generation will go after the brand name, just big names, you’re completely wrong. They will go and support small businesses, as we are starting to see, we’re more vocal about it. I think small businesses have an opportunity to leverage that genuineness, that way of thinking and to connect better. It’s that contract eventually that they feel they’re a part of the company. And I think that’s the difference, right? Can you make the consumer feel a part of your company, too? So while you’re trying to, as a CEO or a leader at a small business, trying to build your own people, it’d be great to build the people outside who’s working with you, if it’s vendors or consumers, how can you make them feel part of the process? I think that type of thinking moving forward is going to be a part of it because people are investing also on Wall Street and to companies that they care about.

And that’s shifting the way. Businesses also are thinking about how they are strategy of going forward. So either you can ignore it, it’s happening and you’ll be left out, or you can try to be ahead of it. And again, we use the word inclusive in a broader way, but to be able to be open to that feedback and then include it in the way you build your culture, build your team, build your leaders, even build your services and products. Because guess what? It’s an experience at the end of all of this anyway, so you might as well have the best one if you can. So we’ve 

Didi: talked a bit about building people. You started to go down this path in terms of, if you are a business that’s open and you’re listening and you’re listening to your consumers and that’s going to be rewarded eventually on Wall Street or other places. But you talk about, you build people and you’re building not only for your maybe 10-person organization that sits on Oak street in your town. Can you talk a little bit about the global piece of that? 

Ryan: I’m not potential, D. You can be 10 people. Even if you choose not to be global, you are global. We are so connected. You can start a startup and be global in services like this and more so because of the way we are digitally connected. Anyway, so to think that one trend starts in one country and then you leave the trend and then it goes across. Like those days are over. Like people start new ideas all over the world.

You can adapt and enable different products and services like that. Like no other. And I think that’s what that mindset of why I put the global piece to it is because it is bigger than what we think we are. Like, you could be a 10-person team and still be global now. In the old days, it was like, well, you got to build up the U.S. market when you get to a hundred million or whatever, the number was, we get to a hundred, you know, 5,000 employees, then we go. Now we love to do that follow-up model because it’s less risk to those things. But now it’s in the SME world. It’s very competitive. There’s a lot of competition. Or, you know, when you talk about this example of FinTech, there’s so much going on in Latin America, in the MENA region, Asia, we’re not even talking about the U.S. yet, and Europe. There’s hubs. Singapore. To blend in Paris, like top 10 hubs, they’re just going to incubate new things. I think that’s where there’s an opportunity. If you can make an impact at an individual level, you will then make an impact on a global level because who you deal with partners and vendors. Everybody’s watching. I know there’s a quote about everybody’s watching, but everybody can be watched. People are looking for best practices and they will take them. I think that is an impact and the influence that you can have on a positive to another business, because they will Google search you, they’ll find you on Twitter, on Instagram to see what you’re doing and you know what they will learn. That’s the plus sides of being interconnected is that you can continue to evolve as a leader and as a business, too. 

Didi: That’s great. And with the foundation, as you’re looking at it, a lot of roles are, you teach for the role and that’s the old way of thinking, right?

You teach for the human and figure out how do you engage them and excite them. You are, of course, you’ve made a bit of your career on looking at the big trends that are happening across the globe. You’re talking regularly on CNN about politics and the supply chain and all kinds of other things. If you were to look at the trends and their impact on global business that could be having an impact for small business and building people from a nice to have to something much more competitive.

Can you talk maybe a little bit about some of those trends that you’re 

Ryan: watching? Yeah. I mean, I don’t know if you could consider this a trend, but there’s a skill gap. Does these awards that are coming out of people’s mouths all the time? And I always ask, well then what are you doing about it to your current employee group?

And I think to me, that’s a trend. That’s at the heart of how you build people, right. You know, are you recognizing that trend? Do you see it coming in a couple of years? Can you get ahead of it and be able to provide the skills necessary for your employees to help the company also succeed in the future?

I think that’s one. I think the ability of transparency and the definition behind that, right? Because transparency is something you practice. Something you put in place, something you write. It’s not just words, too. I think we, I’m starting to see more of companies also holding themselves accountable of the reports that they’re putting out now in sustainability and hiring practices. But if I’m going to SME right now, or if I’m on their board right now, that’s what I’m asking right now just because you’re not big. And these companies are showing this. What are the things that if not everything, to a certain point, are you being transparent to your employees? You know, even if you put something publicly, maybe nobody will see it, but I think that kind of motion of what that is, what that looks like shapes the impact on global business, because this is a question people are going to want to answer, especially if you’re trying to partner with different groups or different ways.

And then lastly, I think, a business trend, which I think will tie back to people in my opinion is personalization. We look at e-commerce is growing so greatly and people are just, services on a phone. People want personalization, mass customization of like, I want my name on something. I want somebody thinking that I’m like an actual human being, even if it’s something so small. If the chocolate had my name now there’s shoes that you could put your name on them or whatever it is.

How do you do that for an individual? Before it was like, Oh, it’s their birthday, let’s take them out to lunch. Can you be more personable in different aspects, outside the anniversary? Some kind of personalization experience. I think about that. I think maybe I’m in the minority of this, of talking about how there that’s going to be a trend.

Maybe I’m a little ahead of the curve when it comes to people, but I think that takes practice. I think that’s a great trait to have in a company and an SME company specifically, because you can tell a genuineness and people care, and that’s a notion you can’t buy. That’s 

Didi: absolutely right. I think HR kind of grew up with compliance and trying to make sure the company was safe. Then it was about, you know, one cookie cutter, one size fits all in terms of, okay, plug in, here you go. Here’s your pen book and we’re off. That doesn’t fly anymore. To your point about what people want from their experience, they want to be seen. They want to be known. They want to be 

Ryan: acknowledged, right.

Or just equal opportunity. No, one’s asking for a handout. Just give an equal opportunity to be fairly treated.  I think that’s what the handbooks is supposed to do. And sometimes you don’t get that feedback because someone’s not asking the right question or not paying attention. And I think that’s, I think we need more of that in that feedback loop in a way that so you can create a personalized experience.

It’s not you dictating, it’s other way around. 

Didi: So maybe we could bring this all together with an example. We try on this show to highlight a, kind of a memorable story or what we call a pivotal people moment, that you could share in terms of where focusing on building people has made a crucial difference to either an individual or to a small business and your experience that you’ve seen in the last year.

Ryan: Within the last year, I would have to go, the pivotal piece for me has been eye opening in teaching Global Leadership at the university. It was the first asynchronous course that was built. I was working on it pre pandemic. It was already a new experience for the students, for my students and it was a diverse group of people.

And, we’re in the pandemic. Things haven’t gone well. People worried about their jobs, you know, just payment jobs. This is in general, right? You’re a student and you’re trying to figure out what my path was, is no longer there. I saw something that I think was a lot different and it wasn’t people weren’t complaining students.

Weren’t complaining. They were raising their hand more. Ryan, I want more like this. Isn’t a real tweet. So I can’t even make this up. I want more Saturday classes with you morning. Like, wait, what you want more Saturday morning classes with me. Why. Why is it is because I want to continue to get better. I want to be able to make an impact.

I may not be in the right place. I may not be a CEO, or I may not even have a job, but I know I want to do something that makes an impact that has my passion and my professional life. And I teach a week around marketing in there and we talk about personal branding a little bit and seeing. Each of everyone’s preplan brand plan.

It was eye opening for me of what the next generation of leaders, not workers, leaders are going to want. I think the SMEs are in the right position to be able to take advantage of hiring or including those voices and, or servicing them in the right way. And so, one, one quick example I would say was really interesting.

It was an example of, as soon as I say, I want art, I love art, but they didn’t want to put art into their plan because that’s not their field. And I’m like, why can’t it do both? And you’re like, nobody’s ever asked me that, is there synergies? I’m like the old way thinking the old gatekeepers, like you’ve got to be just in one, you’ve got to just be in finance and not go anywhere else.

There are people wanting to learn different cultures, different international ways of doing things and how to implement it. But more importantly, we’re building stronger voices. That’s a pivot moment. Have you taken anything from 2020? I think is. That we all have a voice and there’s a strong voice when communities come together and that has a game-changing way to business.

Period. I 

Didi: wonder if you think there’s an element of the obstacle is the way as part of what you’re saying in that game-changing kind of stepping up to leadership and community in a different way? Yeah. 

Ryan: I mean, there is that obstacle makes people go other ways, right? It makes people think about if this path is not open, that’s what we starting to see a lot of in the numbers, you know, the gig economy in the U.S. Two-thirds almost folks have going that route. And I think you’re creating entrepreneurs at the same time. You’re creating a whole new workforce that goes, well, I, I can make an impact with creating an NGO. I can go work for a nonprofit.

I can go find the traditional path is no longer there. Even education is being disrupted, even healthcare, even as we speak. You and I, why you all are around HR is being disrupted and how can you be more efficient? How can you be more impactful and how can you really provide I, the word nimble. It keeps continuing to do pop up in my mind, truthfully, just because that’s something that is a skill set that some people can learn. I mean, you can learn it. Some people are naturally born with it and it’s okay if you’re not, it’s how you adapt to it. The word we’ve we can all say we’ve adapted over the past year, but, guess what, it’s because we had to, can you adapt when you want to adapt right.

When you don’t have to, and there’s a big difference between that. Right? So, and then when you do adapt. Do you then keep it or do you forget it? You can adapt and then ensure that you remember those learnings when you move forward. Don’t pretend to, well, that’s what we just did that for a year because I had to, right, exactly.

Didi: As the dinosaur to the right. As you kind of wrap that up to put a little bit of a practical actionable thoughts together. So when we were applying this thinking to small businesses, what would you counsel them as the professor that you are, and the board member that you are in terms of what they can take away and where should they start?

Challenge. 

Ryan: You need to be challenged. What I mean by that is that leaders probably know exactly what’s happening in the industry and what the status is. Right. You know, the, the days of like, Oh, we gotta have a ping pong table and free food and free snacks – I’m not picking on that. I like free food and free snacks – but that may not be what people want. Challenge the status quo, be challenged. What is it that you can give more, like try to learn. What’s the best out there. What is ideal? You can always work off of  you don’t attack what is the minimum? Right. And there is a conversation around that. And again, I’m speaking out of also, I know that there’s resources constraint, how much money you can spend and that’s fine.

Like I get it, like that’s okay. But you need to know where you can get to the closest. You got to know where you have the power. I think what small businesses, when it comes to people’s collaboration, when people talk about collaboration and teamwork, they always use it as well, we’re teaming up together so we can get the best solution or product for our consumer.

Have you ever collaborated in teamwork to get the best solution for your people? I mean, are you spending as much as energy and time or brain power to do that as well, instead of relying on just maybe a couple of people. You flip the switch like that, and you give a different way of thinking, you become a little more aggressive, like, you know what I’m going to go call so-and-so.

I’m going to go call it Didi even though we’re in different industries, I’m gonna say, what are you doing? You know, what is it that can I do? And, you know, I, and again, as from a business perspective, I think what I’m optimistic we’re on small businesses is that yes, I mentioned the collaboration pieces and what they can do, but the partnerships that they are now in the ability to make more of an impact, right, big companies are looking to be more nimble and they’re not SMEs are having an opportunity to their growth curve is at an all time high to be more efficient, to be more disruptive. You know, there are more problems than solutions out there and maybe one could argue there’s more problems than ever than we’ve ever had or ever faced. But there are more companies out there. So who are going to solve those problems, who’s going to be solving the services.

I look to the SMEs. I think the SMEs are in a position to be able to be the first to get there. Raise their hand and change the way that we look at things and the way we do things. So to do all that, it’s not, doesn’t just take the CEO or a founder to do that. And it’s not about I, this term of like where I’m bringing everyone along, I’d rather be a part of them bringing me along, because that means we’re going, you know, if I’m supposed to be doing my job is to make everyone else better and, and educate myself that I’m giving them all the resources.

If it’s not money, I’m giving them other resources to continue to do what they want to do and continue to lead the ship. 

Didi: We’ve been primed, as from leadership perspective, is like we’re giving the advice. We’re giving the guidance, we’re giving the framework, we’re giving the plan and energizing the troops and let’s go do it.

And from the way that you are talking about your graduate students, to the way that you’re engaging in Davos, to the way that, that your part of a conversation is there’s this power that don’t overlook the power of the community and being led in some new perspective collectively. 

Ryan: And I think why I keep thinking to get used that way is that I think there’s a disruption in the board level.

So when you think why that matters to SMEs, think about big corporations have an issue. Some of them have issues of different diversity of thought. So if you don’t have the diversity of thought and perspective in there, a good running company would it have all cylinders on, you know, running and going forward.

That means you’re using everything. Well, if you don’t have great board governance, that means you’re losing out. I think on some things. That’s where the SMEs can come in is because they can be more nimble in diversity of thought and can be inclusive, that then can catch up. And that’s what we’re seeing a disruption on the, in the boardroom right now, but you’re seeing it because companies are being left behind. They have to change the way you are hiring people, including people from different backgrounds because it’s always been kind of siloed. And I don’t know. If I’m an SME right now, I’m paying attention to say you don’t want to make that mistake. You want to be ahead of that curve. And if you’re not there already, and I think it’s easier to be done there then obviously at a publicly traded company where you have to reinstall what future looks like in the future.

Didi: Well, I love the helpful note, you know, coming out of the, the end of last year, where we saw a lot of businesses decline, but a lot of businesses in conversations I’ve had, the pivots have been breathtaking of the fresh thinking and looking, looking differently at the opportunity to what you were talking about before.

And this obstacle is the way. Any final thoughts, Ryan, before we wrap today? 

Ryan: Well, I thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for caring for this community because I think this community. You mentioned pivot, will pivot us to the right spots in the way we look at the world and the economy across many aspects, right?

Just in people, the best advice that I would probably end up be kind. If you think about be kind build people, you don’t need money. I mean, those things you don’t need money to do. You can do it without the money. And I think that’s the, hopefully you can take that message and do that for everyone around you and it’s contagious.

So, you know, that’s, to me is, uh, I wish these messages get passed to each of us, that we’ll continue to be kind and be reminded of it. 

Didi: I’m Didi and this was Pivot. If you want more detail on the topic of building people and having impact, check out the zenefits.com/pops-podcast. Also, if you have questions you want us to answer on our show, check out the link in our show notes below and we’ll get you covered.

Thanks for listening.